Mid-Season Promotion/Relegation Schedule

[UBT - wbiz]

Hi Tim

I'm not bothered what league I am in, but using my results as an example and your criteria, I don't see how I was demoted.

Up to the current sprint I had around 48 sprint points, and taken part in nearly every sprint.

Hiya

Yes, it's a tricky thing to try and categorise the individual stats for over 110 members and try and lump them together into 4 Leagues...

And yes, my "workings" spreadsheet confirm that you took part in 12 Marathons and have earned 48 FB points in the process.

This would put me in position 8 in the updated league 2 sprint which is an long way from the relegation zone. I am also around halfway down the league in the marathon but you imply little weight is given to the marathon (which makes sense, most of the competitiveness is the sprints).

Perhaps you have too much weight on credits from the high scoring projects where I would lose out significantly - in fact, I believe just one project (primegrid) achieves more sprint credits than all the rest of the projects put together in almost every case (not fully checked)?

As I said, I'm not bothered what league I am in, I'm just concerned that the system hasn't really been representative for a lot of volunteers.

The weighting I use is quite subjective and is based on some simple maths in the hope that I can groups members with similar resources together - as there is no point being in a particular League if someone has LITTLE or NO chance of earning *any* FB Sprint points.

You have earned 4,879,815 BOINC credits along the way.

Comparing this to other League 2 Members, your total BOINC credits earned on Sprints is significantly less than other League 2 Members, who in the same period have earned between 10 million and over 100 million BOINC credits. Of course, some Sprint projects issue higher credits than others, and also they may feature both CPU and GPU applications, which of course will favour those with the right host resources available.

(From my spreadsheet I can see that members who took part in Amicable, srBase and Einstein Sprints earned a similar number of BOINC credits, compared to PrimeGrid - and in the case of Sprint #3 for Amicable, 1.8 billion BOINC credits were earned in League #1 compared to about 380 million on Sprint #1 for PrimeGrid. For Sprint #9 (also PrimeGrid) only 280 million BOINC credits were earned by League #1 members.)


Doing the same comparison with League 3 Members, the range of BOINC credits earned is between just under 1 million and about 10 million, with an average of 5,622,966 BOINC credits per Member.

So, in League 3, you are more likely to earn MORE FB points in a Sprint than by staying in League 2.

regards
Tim

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the reply. I didn't have a suitable stats pull to check my primegrid sprint statement so did a few random checks which were obviously inadequate. So thanks for the clarification to my false guesstimate.

As you can see, I'm not really competing this year (or next) in the overall marathon and basically I'm doing sprints for the team while concentrating on biological projects and doing the bare minimum on boincgames as well. Hopefully in the middle of next year I will be starting solar and get more in the swing of things again.

If you want to dump me in league 4 or temporarily retire me for the moment and give someone else a chance to compete in league 3, that would be fine with me, either-way it should not effect my team contribution as that is done on credits, not user points (check?). I'll leave it to you, there are a lot of pros and cons.

[UBT - Timbo]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the reply. I didn't have a suitable stats pull to check my primegrid sprint statement so did a few random checks which were obviously inadequate. So thanks for the clarification to my false guesstimate.

As you can see, I'm not really competing this year (or next) in the overall marathon and basically I'm doing sprints for the team while concentrating on biological projects and doing the bare minimum on boincgames as well. Hopefully in the middle of next year I will be starting solar and get more in the swing of things again.

If you want to dump me in league 4 or temporarily retire me for the moment and give someone else a chance to compete in league 3, that would be fine with me, either-way it should not effect my team contribution as that is done on credits, not user points (check?). I'll leave it to you, there are a lot of pros and cons.

Hi again

It has taken a lot of head scratching and various days of careful consideration to come up with some meaningful, quantifiable and substantiated verdicts on which Members should be moved between the Leagues. But I've tried my best to be fair and reasonable so that everyone is in a League that they have a chance to be able to compete...unlike bunching everyone together and then it's just a "first past the post" (ie "my hosting farm is bigger than your hosting farm") method of their placing in the League

It's not a problem to move members around the League tables...and in your case, you are still contributing, which is more than can be said for those who have earned very few BOINC credits in the Sprints (though they could still be earning lots of FB points in the Marathon, if that is their preferred method of contributing. ).

As far as your League status goes, lumping you in with those whose Sprint contributions are relatively limited, seems a bit unfair as you have taken part in 12 Sprints thus far and as such, your contribution does help to make League #3 that bit more competitive...

And by the end of the year, I think you stand a good chance of easily being in the Top 10 (out of 25)...compared to 8th out of 18 in League #2

regards
Tim

[Tamagoch]

There is a lot of members with a level of contribution on the edge of Leagues. That would make them jump between the Leagues twice a year. That's why it is so tricky to decide for these cases. Many thanks to Tim!

That was about the method and process of Leagues sorting. I still don't have an opinion about the result. I have lost many rivals to lower leagues. And looking at the new ones still runnning in L2 for the current sprint - they seem to be underperforming

It is a step to the unknown, a good refresh to the competition anyway. Next sprints should be fun, hopefully.

[UBT - Timbo]

There is a lot of members with a level of contribution on the edge of Leagues. That would make them jump between the Leagues twice a year. That's why it is so tricky to decide for these cases. Many thanks to Tim!

HI

Thanks for the feedback.

Yes, the whole idea of the promotion and relegation process was to try and even out the different crunching abilities for both Teams and Members and hopefully to inspire participants to "try harder"

That was about the method and process of Leagues sorting. I still don't have an opinion about the result. I have lost many rivals to lower leagues. And looking at the new ones still running in L2 for the current sprint - they seem to be underperforming

Yes, as explained here:

viewtopic.php?p=4391#p4391

the Members League placements was already "fixed" as soon as the current Sprint had started - and my upload was delayed (until after the start of this Sprint) due to a problem with the server, which Sebastien was able to fix and I had hoped that the upload would ensure that Members new League placements would be updated.

But they were not...but that's only a minor blip, as when the next Sprint starts, the update should then take precedence.

And, over time, I think you will find that the newly promoted Members will provide you with some stronger competition

It is a step to the unknown, a good refresh to the competition anyway. Next sprints should be fun, hopefully.

Agreed...however, we are running out of a wide choice of projects to select from...which is worrying, as it seems that too many projects are closing down or are broken, or they are running with very few tasks available.

But in the meantime, our Teams and Members are doing a good job, supporting those projects that are still running and that is a good thing

regards
Tim

[Polaxis]

I've got promoted from L4 directly to L1 where I'm surely in no position anymore to compete within the top 3 with my equipment.
I have digest this first and sort my thoughts.

[UBT - Timbo]

I've got promoted from L4 directly to L1 where I'm surely in no position anymore to compete within the top 3 with my equipment.
I have digest this first and sort my thoughts.

Hi

Thanks for your feedback.

You were "rewarded" with a significant promotion, because your have competed in all 13 of the previous Sprints *and* the BOINC credits you have earned in these Sprints is commensurate with other Members in League 1, as your host(s) are noticeably more able to significantly support all of the Sprint projects (thus far).

Avg League 4 Member total BOINC credits 7.5m - excluding your contribution

Avg League 3 Member total BOINC credits 4.5m - but excludes the #1 Member in this League

Avg League 2 Member total BOINC credits 23m

Your total BOINC credits: 58,224,734

The reason for updating the Team and Members League tables is simply to keep each League as evenly matched as possible, which gives *everyone* a chance to earn FB points. Without this process, some Teams and Members can become blase about taking part if they are constantly "outgunned" by those with better resources at their disposal.

regards
Tim

[Tamagoch]

Hi everyone,

the fight for points should be more intense now. This time I went to sleep and forgot to turn on a few hosts, lost one place for sure because of that. Next time I could lose everything

[Polaxis]

I've got promoted from L4 directly to L1 where I'm surely in no position anymore to compete within the top 3 with my equipment.
I have digest this first and sort my thoughts.

Hi

Thanks for your feedback.

You were "rewarded" with a significant promotion, because your have competed in all 13 of the previous Sprints *and* the BOINC credits you have earned in these Sprints is commensurate with other Members in League 1, as your host(s) are noticeably more able to significantly support all of the Sprint projects (thus far).

Avg League 4 Member total BOINC credits 7.5m - excluding your contribution

Avg League 3 Member total BOINC credits 4.5m - but excludes the #1 Member in this League

Avg League 2 Member total BOINC credits 23m

Your total BOINC credits: 58,224,734

The reason for updating the Team and Members League tables is simply to keep each League as evenly matched as possible, which gives *everyone* a chance to earn FB points. Without this process, some Teams and Members can become blase about taking part if they are constantly "outgunned" by those with better resources at their disposal.

regards
Tim

I understand how the decision was made and the well meant intentions behind.
I disagree with the numbers though. L4 had few participants in the first sprints and some "heavy hitters" joined later in the season. Also we had "Amicable Numbers" early in the season with AN being one of the most profitable Point-projects.

I still wanted to give this a chance and not immediately react / complain. But after 2 sprints (P15 and P17) I don't see myself scoring any sprint points for the rest of the season.

I took a lot of time and pride min-maxing projects and sprints in the first half of this season to maybe win L4 and ascend then to L3 or even L2. Don't take it personally, I'm very grateful to still have people like you around putting in effort for surely non flourishing application like BOINC and make it fun for a lot of people. But putting me in L1 killed pretty much all the fun for me now.

[UBT - Timbo]

I understand how the decision was made and the well meant intentions behind.
I disagree with the numbers though. L4 had few participants in the first sprints and some "heavy hitters" joined later in the season. Also we had "Amicable Numbers" early in the season with AN being one of the most profitable Point-projects.

I still wanted to give this a chance and not immediately react / complain. But after 2 sprints (P15 and P17) I don't see myself scoring any sprint points for the rest of the season.

I took a lot of time and pride min-maxing projects and sprints in the first half of this season to maybe win L4 and ascend then to L3 or even L2. Don't take it personally, I'm very grateful to still have people like you around putting in effort for surely non flourishing application like BOINC and make it fun for a lot of people. But putting me in L1 killed pretty much all the fun for me now.

Hi

Thanks for your input.

The point of having different Leagues for both Teams and Members is to try and even out the crunching ability of every participant.

This way, everyone has a chance of earning some FB points.

And as noted, your significant total of BOINC credits (over the first half of the season) is commensurate with other League 1 members - so it is only fair that when the promotions were calculated, your original placement in League 4 (which is where new Teams/Members are allocated initially, as there is no way to assess their "crunching ability") was therefore re-assessed at the appropriate time and it would have been unfair on League 3 or even League 2 members to promote you to either of these Leagues.

But clearly, putting a Ferrari in the same League as a FIAT 500, a VW Polo or a Volvo XC70 is rather illogical, don't you think? Surely it's much better to be in the same League as others with similar host / crunching capabilities?

And of course, if your entire years total of BOINC credits falls below a certain threshold then of course you will probably be relegated into a lower League for next Seasons Challenges.

Of course, Formula BOINC is a voluntary set of Challenges...and everyone can choose whether they want to participate and to therefore assist each project to help them achieve the projects goals.

best regards
Tim

[UBT - wbiz]

after 2 sprints (P15 and P17) I don't see myself scoring any sprint points for the rest of the season

If you had been in league 2 all season you would have scored 162 sprint points placing you 2nd in the sprints

If you had been in league 1 all season you would have scored 17 sprint points (gained in 5 sprints) placing you 20th in the sprints and 15th overall.

You have effectively got 167 sprint bonus points in league 1 which will give you a decent result over the full year, I'm predicting 10th if you keep your excellent marathon performance and still get some points in the sprints.

Its too much trouble for me to work out your league 2 marathon result to date unless you are really desperate to know, I think as you are 7th in the marathon in league 1 then you would be in the top two in the marathon in league 2.

Note that the marathons are calculated live so your league 1 marathon position is the same as though you had been in league 1 all season.